The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

I think we've let this go on long enough. At best this has gone off topic, at worst, it's become an argument. I can understand how the topic at hand can stir up differences of opinion, but what has unfolded has gone too far the wrong side of discussion, certainly.

GA, you must tone down the aggressive nature with which you challenge other's opinions. We have had one case already where your petty challenges to another's views has led to great friction, and the same has become apparent here. It cannot continue, and as such, I recommend that you refrain from posting in such style where you pick quotes and then critique their content, before moving on to another quote. We want discussion, not argument. Discussion involves taking in to account the opinion of the other side and offering a counter, not merely discounting their expressed views as wrong. People have their own mind, and will think what they like, and it's not always going to be the same as yours. You have to accept that, and if you wish to challenge the opinion expressed, do so in an acceptable and mature manner.

Conor, as much as I can see that the reaction to your posts has riled you, it is important that you respond in a way which complys with the rules. Your frustrations are justified, but please attempt not to breach the rules with your own posts. Where necessary, the staff team will step in to resolve any dispute, as is now the case.

Henceforth, could the discussion please return to that for which the topic was intended, which was the discussion of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. If a difference of opinion should occur, I request that those concerned construct posts in a non-offensive manner which takes into account the views of others.

Written on behalf of the staff team following discussion.

GhostAnime wrote:

I also made the point that Zelda would benefit from a change.
Suggesting a good and reasonable course of change in something from a
fans viewpoint is only a good thing.

How do you truly know it'll benefit, though?

If they pull it off well enough it will gain a more mature fanbase, a better reputation in the modern gameing community (mainly because they decided not to keep doing the same thing over and over) and most importantly, it will be something new that isn't a gimmick. It will also appeal to people who want to see an edgier and properly dark Zelda.

GhostAnime wrote:

Please tell me, why do you keep bringing up "blood and gore" in
your arguments? You were the first to suggest it and I only agreed,
saying that the appropriate amount of it would make the game more
enjoyable as I described.

I bring it up because it's pretty much the only thing you're asking for (fine, dim lights and dark environments aren't what you are suggesting).

No. It isn't. If it was why would I be denying it over and over?

What I want is a more serious, gritty, action based Zelda with a larger world and larger freedom of exploration. I want a more gripping story with better cinematics, a main character with an actual personality, a realistic and fun combat mechanic (obviously with a suitable amount of gore/dismemberments, after all, there's only so much family friendly shit one can take) and

GhostAnime wrote:But so far, once you get down to it, that's the ONLY difference we've found in terms of overall effects and atmosphere.

Nope.

GhostAnime wrote:Wy would that would make the game more enjoyable for you? can you tell me why exactly?

Its better to be able to see what your attacks have done to your opponent. It's also more satisfying for the enemies arm to come off rather than see it flinch with a blue cartoony flash. Could also give you a tactical advantage. For example, you could disarm an enemy or just get your sword lodged in their skull if you want.
If you don't like that sort of thing then that's your problem but I think many people will welcome a change like that as long as it isn't over the top. That skull thing is probably a bit much actually.

GhostAnime wrote:why is blood and gore important in a game that emphasis exploration.. ?

I don't know, you tell me? I say there's no reason you can't have both. Again, "blood and gore" is not what I'd add first so just stop mentioning it, its pointless.

GhostAnime wrote:

Again, I'll use Metal Gear as an example of a fictional
franchise that is taken very seriously and has a very large fan base and
is mostly very realistic and very mature.

It has a fanbase mostly because of its storyline and characters; hardly because it has blood in it, or 'mature' settings, or anything of the sort.

I never said that was the reason for it's success...
You just don't fucking shut up about "blood" do you? That wasn't my point at all when writing that! I was talking about how it's a serious and mature fantasy game that very successful.

GhostAnime wrote:Btw, it may be fictional, but it's hardly a fantasy action adventure game. It's still not comparable to Zelda. Things comparable to Zelda would be something like Devil May Cry, or Prince of Persia. Maybe even Kingdom Hearts. Those are the games you may be wanting to use (btw two of those franchises are actually very successful even without taking the things you've mentioned).

I haven't played any of those games so I cant compare.

GhostAnime wrote:

"The only difference is blood and gore." No, that's
not the only difference. You are only thinking in extremes. I said that
I didn't want cartoony combat effects and you think that it must mean
that I want extreme amounts of gore.
4. "Fantasy effects" can include
blood effects. Monsters presumably have blood.

Tell me other fantasy effects you want then because blood and gore is pretty much all you mentioned. If you don't want me to keep mentioning it then please suggest something else. How else can you change the effects of Zelda in a way that it would still fit as a fantasy action adventure game?

You tell me what "fantasy effects" are. I don't know. Does it really need any sparkles or rainbows for it to be a fantasy game?
I've already told you what makes Zelda a fantasy game. AGAIN you ignore me. I don't have all fucking night.
It's a fantasy cos its in a pretend world with monsters in it etc.

GhostAnime wrote:

Yes, I know it's a fictional videogame. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Just because
it's fictional doesn't mean that you need to have things in it that
dont make sense.

So fantasy games that are fiction are always supposed to make sense? Honestly, what fiction video game DOES make sense? Do any of these monsters exist anyway? Is there actually a guy in Metal Gear Solid that runs around in Alaska without a shirt on?

A metal gear makes sense because its a machine therefore it's possible. Snake makes sense because he's a person.
A wind-generating device made out of leaves doesn't make sense.

This is so irritating. You can have things in fantasy games that make sense like a sword and a sheild and a monster. Bombs that are actually spiders DO NOT make sense and thats the difference between a realistic fantasy game and an unrealistic fantasy game. Now drop it.

GhostAnime wrote:

And no, we haven't had proper epic cutscenes. That skydive in the
trailer is the only evidence of any proper cinematic action.
There
were a few near the end of TP but I think they can do more.

There are epicly long cutscenes in 3D Zelda games in general. They may not have long speaking scenes (although they were a lot of those in TP and there's no reason to assume SS won't have them), but maybe you can tell me the differences specifically? I've played all four main MGS games just so you know.

The story in Zelda games are very unoriginal. There's no real speech. Any real twist in the story is a rarity. Most of the cutscenes just involve a few of the characters standing near each other and talking.

GhostAnime wrote:

By standard I mean the same basic lock on, strafe, attack combat
mechanism that has been present in all home console zelda games since
OoT.

What would you prefer? It works doesn't it? They have changed it from time to time of course.. what more could you do, though?

Maybe the lock-on is the thing in least need for change but I'd expect them to come up with something a bit more advanced than that after all this time. Perhaps grapple moves, being able to block with the sword, a better sheild-bash move that can be used to do more than just stun certain enemies.
When ever I play TP i find that all I need to do is lock on and waggle the remote about a lot (but I do remember one really cool move - helm splitter or something)

GhostAnime wrote:But... why? Why can't Kirby be under that same scrutiny? You say Kirby is more suited to being childish and light-hearted.. I also remember saying Zelda is more suited (and by 'more suited' we probably really mean 'that's the appeal/the way it's always been for its fans) to be a simple fantasy action game with elements of realism and fantasy having a good mixture. Sometimes leaning heavily after every other game or so.

Kirby should obviously not be put under that scrutiny because it's Kirby. Who would ever ask for a more realistic Kirby game? That would just make it completely the opposite of what it is.
However, Zelda is compatible for that kind of change. Imagine it looking more like Lord of the Rings or something. Thats the more realistic image that I want.

That appeal is from years ago. It's the modern appeal that most people want and it's pure laziness to just do the same thing as you did in the last game and pretend it's all epic and new just to please the fans. Every game series changes with the times and that's what helps them survive and keep it fresh and even more entertaining than the last in the series by reinventing it and improving it.
Nintendo have clearly not tried to make it different to the other Zeldas and if they don't then we might as well be playing OoT clones for years.

GhostAnime wrote:MGS does have better boss fights than Zelda.. but that's because MGS is a stealth action game.

No, it's because the developers are very clever and think outside the box. The box that has been packed full of the same kind of predictable boss fight from most Zelda games.

Yes, there are a few cool boss fights like the one with the dragon on TP but just look at the trailer for SS! A circular room. A monster boss with eye weak points. It's all done before and so many times as well!

GhostAnime wrote:This sounds more like you saying you don't like fantasy action/adventure boss fights in general.

If you're so keen on deciding what my interest are for me then why should I bother replying? According to you, I hate fantasy games, am obsessed with blood, gore, dim lights and brown skies and hate the bosses in every game. Who told you all this??

GhostAnime wrote:Kirby suffers from the same problem you mentioned as do Mario games, Kingdom Hearts games, Prince of Persia games, etc. They are games that depend on close combat and using various methods for new boss fights each time (even though they're usually ordinarily done). There truly is nothing you can do about that.. although Zelda isn't really one to focus on boss fights in terms of appeal, but I can see your point here at least.

I can't comment on PoP or Kingdom Hearts but the bosses in Galaxy were genius in my opinion. Kirby bosses are simple and challenging. Kirby bosses are nothing like Zelda bosses at all. They're damage based, not weak point based with stages.

GhostAnime wrote:

If you think hard enough, it's easy to make an original boss battle.
I'll think of one if you want.

Let's see what you come up with, then.

The "boss" is the leader of a large group of zombie skeletons or moblins or something. He was critically hurt from something that happened in a cut scene (maybe Zelda used a special power of hers or maybe Link, using a glider of some sort, impaled him with his sword from with aerial attack).
In any case, he's injured and limping away to his horse which isn't too far away.
There are a large amount of his minions (slow moving, medium damage, easily killed) surrounding you and you need to fight them off to give you enough time to fire an arrow into the back. He's a few hundred feet away so you'll need a second or two to get your shot right. It takes about 5 arrows to stop him from escaping on his horse. After he's dead, a nice cutscene will show Link stylishly finish off the rest of the minions in a nice fight sequence and then he runs over to the bosses body. Perhaps he's still alive and takes a final swing at Link and then the story continues in whatever way.

GhostAnime wrote:Skipped some things because I want to minimize post length. I think I responded to at least relevant major points.

I think you just skipped the ones you couldn't answer. Anyway, can we please finish the quoting mess? It's annoying and takes ages.

@OWEN - Sorry, I'm finished with this kind of thing now. I'll keep it on topic from now on.

Yeah, of course he posts the last word AFTER Owen tells him to stop.

GhostAnime wrote:Yeah, of course he posts the last word AFTER Owen tells him to stop.

None of my last post was aggressive or argumentative.



Anyway, I didn't see epona in the trailer. Does anyone think she'll be absent in SS?

It was asked to stop period.

GhostAnime wrote:It was asked to stop period.

Then why are you still going??

Sounds like you're just sore about not having the last word. Besides, I was just finishing my post when Owen made his. Can we stop this childish thing and stay on topic?

Then why are you still going??

Because you were still going.

GhostAnime wrote:

Then why are you still going??

Because you were still going.

Fuck it. I'm just going to stop trying. I've given you far more of my patience than you deserve and now you're just being a dick. You're not here to talk about Zelda, you're here to try and piss off as many people as you can.

Your level of immaturity and is astonishing for someone of your age. If you don't like being referred to as a typical arrogant self-righteous american idiot then stop being one.

Bye.

GA, show some maturity. Your attitude stinks. I'd expect more of a 12 year old. You mention that the argument was requested to stop, in which case, why do you insist on posting abrasive comments, the sole purpose of which is to rub Conor up the wrong way? Given that you've specifically said that you're merely posting due to the fact that Conor is also, you come across as incredibly childish. Posting what you have done since I made that request is deliberately argumentative, and the only result is more friction. Be the bigger man for once; desist, or there will be consequences. If you fail to heed this warning, we will take action. This ends now.

Conor, I appeal to you directly. Please do not allow yourself to be taken in anger and continue to respond. You have sense, so should more continue to be posted, please mind to ignore it. We're here to deal with it, and shall do as such.

I wonder in Skyward Sword that their will be new elemental equipment or dungeons so to speak. Maybe 'air' will be a big factor as of the 'Sky'. Cannot wait for this game.

I hope to see more elemental stuff too although the sky's gonna be the biggest element we see. I think Miyamoto said that the story was that

Spoiler:

@Owen - Thanks. I'm glad we can continue the discussion without any hostility.

Soundwave wrote:I wonder in Skyward Sword that their will be new elemental equipment or dungeons so to speak. Maybe 'air' will be a big factor as of the 'Sky'. Cannot wait for this game.

I think I remember hearing that they said they're going to make it so that you don't notice that you've actually entered a dungeon. Something like that.

Anyway, it'll probably have a pretty sky-themed story. But, when Link was doing that skydive, could you tell whether he was jumping off a cloud or a rock?

As much as I don't like repeating things I've already said, I'll make an exception to fill in you guys who haven't seen my views.

Art style, effing awesome. Based upon French impressionists of the 19th century, which is awesome.

The controls, while the press conference performance was a bit sketchy (though it was clearly due to massive inteference, even teh Epic Mickey one suffered), it looks very intuitive. I actually mimicked a few motions out and I think they'll work out just fine.

I hope it has a fantastic story, the controls are good and is fun to play, that's what matters!

Regarding what Conor said about the rock/cloud, Good point noted. I believe it was a rock, given that it looked to be of a different colour and texture to the clouds he was diving towards. Of course, that begs the question, why was he diving off a cliff? We're obviously assuming that he's not suicidal and isn't going to hit the ground, so what happens in this event? Will it involve another animal transformation, as with the wolf in Twilight Princess. Maybe Link will transform into a cucco, or maybe an ooccoo. The latter would be truly disturbing. There was an easter egg in Twilight Princess where if you attacked a cucco for long enough, you'd be able to control that cucco for a limited time. Irrelevant, but interesting.

Link does live in a city in the sky, he ventures down to land which he finds unusual and/or fantastic. However, the ground is plagued by evil, which he sets out to destroy.

That's as much of the plot as I know anyway, it was talked about in the supa sekrit round table meeting Nintendo always has during E3.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/tpsswwcomp2.png (this one is too wide).



LOOK AT DEM KIDDY GRAFIX

Both faces creep me out. However, Skyward Sword's graphics feel more Zelda-like to me.

I have to say, I thoroughly prefer the Twilight Princess look. There's so much more detail, and I just think it just plain looks nicer. The lines/antialiasing in the Skyward Sword shots looks to be better, but there's just a lack of detail. I can understand the style, but there's so much detail lacking.

Official Nintendo Magazine has info's! (Possibly spoiler)

Spoiler:

Hmm! I hope we do get it early

Early 2011 might mean I can get it for my birthday
But then the 3DS might come out then too D:

Yeah, I think it might..which means i've got a lot of saving to do >_>

If they come out at the same time, I think the 3DS would have to take priority. I can always just get Zelda a while later, as much as it pains me.